Mariri Okutsu of Philosophy no Dance on the Value of Being Self & Advocating for Mental Health: Billboard Japan Women in Music Interview

Philosophy no Dance's Mariri Okutsu spoke with Billboard Japan for their Women in Music interview series with female players in the Japanese entertainment industry. The WIM Japan initiative was launched in 2022 to honor artists, producers and executives who have made significant contributions to music and inspired other women through their work.

Okutsu made the transition from being a singer-songwriter to an idol group member nine years ago. In the podcast “B-side Talk – Are you taking care of your mental health?” supports the importance of mental well-being. Okutsu, who says she was able to find “what's most important” after going through mental health issues, shares her thoughts on the value of being herself as an idol singer in her private life.

Tell us how you became a member of the idol group.

Before I became an idol performer, I was a singer-songwriter and also played in a band. They asked me if I would be interested in making idols, and even though it was a world I knew nothing about, you only live once, so I thought I'd give it a try. I had never even danced before, but I took the step.

What was your personality like before you became an idol?

Before I became an idol, I think I was more specific about things. I liked rock music and I thought I was bad when I played, so when people would say things like, “You have a good figure” [mentioning the size of her breasts] and “You should sing sweeter songs,” resenting that people weren't seeing the things I wanted them to see. I was more into the rock mentality then than I am now, so when people said things like that, I turned up the volume on my guitar even more and distorted the sound, just to be a rebel. [Laughs] And when it comes to clothes, I want to wear my favorite “battle” outfit on stage and be fit to shine more.

Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the idol scene since it's so different from your career up to that point?

I'm now in my ninth year as an idol performer, and I feel like it's a very warm world with passionate fans. At first, I looked for ways to live up to the expectations of what an “idol” should be. I tried to wear big bows and fancy clothes, and even chose “cute” drinks and food. [Laughs] I tried really hard to figure out what my character should be, but I couldn't keep trying to be someone I'm not. So I went, “No! It won't work!” and once I showed who I really am, and things became much easier. After realizing that it's important to be myself, both in the idol career and in life itself, I try not to put on a front and make sure that my real self is as beautiful as possible.

I think it takes courage to show your true self. What advice would you give to someone who can't find the courage to do it?

Being able to create your own character wearing “armor” is also great. It means you have the physical and mental strength to continue wearing that armor. The issue is not which is better or worse. Whichever you choose is fine.

These are very convincing words coming from someone like you, having chosen to take off your armor and experienced the relief that comes with it. What kind of person are the real you?

Well… Another thing that confused me when I became an idol was that it became harder to sing songs about romantic relationships. Until then I thought it was good to sing about things I felt based on my own experiences. But our fans support us with such enthusiasm and romance is considered taboo for idol singers and I don't want to upset my fans. It's about building a relationship of trust with them. So I overcame that hurdle by being up front and saying out loud that “I want to get married someday!” [Laughs] Because it's true that I want to get married and have kids someday. Instead of announcing it out of the blue and shocking people, my plan is to get my fans used to the idea that he “wants to get married.” At this point, my fans seem to worry about me and ask me, “Aren't you getting married yet?” [Laughs]

You've been an idol for nine years, holding onto it while you sort out the things you're confused about in your own way. Is there anything you make sure you do to keep working for a long time?

I think I've always worried about an idol's lifespan, thinking that if I didn't get results after my major label debut, I'd be replaced by the younger next generation. But somehow I managed to keep going for nine years. The key to this was not overexerting myself. Even if the other person has no bad intentions, you should be ready to say “No” and take care of yourself when you feel mentally drained or when you feel that you are not going the way you want.

It's true that being young is still considered important in today's idol scene.

Youth is a really strong thing with its boundless energy and enthusiasm, but I think Philosophy no Dance at the moment is also in really good shape. We may not have that motivation to be young, but we're calmer grown women, you know? We'd love for people to check us out.

Why can you keep doing what you do with such sincerity?

I went through some mental health issues once. When that happened, I stopped and thought about what I really wanted to do and decided that my biggest goal in life was to continue playing music. I figured out what was most important to me, so I quit all my part-time jobs, and the priorities of my various options from that point on became clear.

You advocate for mental wellness on the “B-side Talk” podcast you host. Are there any episodes that you remember in particular?

They are always interesting, but during the episode “Sports and Mental Health”, I learned that putting winning above all else can be one of the factors that cause mental discomfort in athletes, and I thought that the concept also has a lot in common with world of idols and entertainment. The desire to “big it up” can be an effective stimulant, but it can also take a toll on you mentally. Therefore, it is important to enjoy what you are doing without obsessing too much about achieving results. I was surprised to find that many of the things that I thought were very far from my species were actually connected in terms of mental well-being.

Sony Music Entertainment Japan is expanding a project called “B-side” that provides support to artists and creators in the entertainment industry, both mentally and physically. I understand they offer a variety of programs including counseling. What did you think when you first heard about this system?

I was genuinely happy. As an artist, it's something to be thankful for, and it's reassuring to know that we're being cared for as people, rather than being consumed as products. I actually went for counseling. I'd never really heard of counseling before, and I didn't have any particular problems, so I was wondering if it was okay to go through with it. I thought counseling was something you went to to get advice on whether your concerns were right or wrong and what to do about them. But when I actually experienced it, counseling felt more like a conversation with myself. Talking to myself helped me organize my thoughts and it was like the counselor paved the way for me to find answers like things that were bothering me or worrying about. If someone has unclear, unstable feelings, I think counseling can help untangle the knots in your mind.

—This interview with Rio Hirai (SOW SWEET PUBLISHING) first appeared on Billboard Japan